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Vitalik's response to Tuur

I interlaced everything between Vitalik and Tuur to make it easier to read.
1/ People often ask me why I’m so “against” Ethereum. Why do I go out of my way to point out flaws or make analogies that put it in a bad light?
2/ First, ETH’s architecture & culture is opposite that of Bitcoin, and yet claims to offer same solutions: decentralization, immutability, SoV, asset issuance, smart contracts, …
Second, ETH is considered a crypto ‘blue chip’, thus colors perception of uninformed newcomers.
Agree! I personally find Ethereum culture far saner, though I am a bit biased :)
3/ I've followed Ethereum since 2014 & feel a responsibility to share my concerns. IMO contrary to its marketing, ETH is at best a science experiment. It’s now valued at $13B, which I think is still too high.
Not an argument
4/ I agree with Ethereum developer Vlad Zamfir that it’s not money, not safe, and not scalable.
@VladZamfir Eth isn't money, so there is no monetary policy. There is currently fixed block issuance with an exponential difficulty increase (the bomb).
I'm pretty sure Vlad would say the exact same thing about Bitcoin
5/ To me the first red flag came up when in our weekly hangout we asked the ETH founders about to how they were going to scale the network. (We’re now 4.5 years later, and sharding is still a pipe dream.)
Ethereum's Joe Lubin in June 2014: "anticipate blockchain bloat—working on various sharding ideas".
The core principles have been known for years, the core design for nearly a year, and details for months, with implementations on the way. So sharding is definitely not at the pipe dream stage at this point.
6/ Despite strong optimism that on-chain scaling of Ethereum was around the corner (just another engineering job), this promise hasn’t been delivered on to date.
Sure, sharding is not yet finished. Though more incremental stuff has been going well, eg. uncle rates are at near record lows despite very high chain usage.
7/ Recently, a team of reputable developers decided to peer review a widely anticipated Casper / sharding white paper, concluding that it does not live up to its own claims.
Unmerciful peer review of Vlad Zamfir & co's white paper to scale Ethereum: "the authors do NOT prove that the CBC Casper family of protocols is Byzantine fault tolerant in either practice or theory".
That review was off the mark in many ways, eg. see, and by the way CBC is not even a prerequisite for Serenity
8/ On the 2nd layer front, devs are now trying to scale Ethereum via scale via state channels (ETH’s version of Lightning), but it is unclear whether main-chain issued ERC20 type tokens will be portable to this environment.
Umm... you can definitely use Raiden with arbitrary ERC20s. That's why the interface currently uses WETH (the ERC20-fied version of ether) and not ETH
9/ Compare this to how the Bitcoin Lightning Network project evolved:
elizabeth stark @starkness: For lnd: First public code released: January 2016 Alpha: January 2017 Beta: March 2018…
10/ Bitcoin’s Lightning Network is now live, and is growing at rapid clip.
Jameson Lopp @lopp: Lightning Network: January 2018 vs December 2018
Sure, though as far as I understand there's still a low probability of finding routes for nontrivial amounts, and there's capital lockup griefing vectors, and privacy issues.... FWIW I personally never thought lightning is unworkable, it's just a design that inherently runs into ten thousand small issues that will likely take a very long time to get past.
11/ In 2017, more Ethereum scaling buzz was created, this time the panacea was “Plasma”.
@TuurDemeester Buterin & Poon just published a new scaling proposal for Ethereum, "strongly complementary to base-layer PoS and sharding":
Yay, Plasma!
12/ However, upon closer examination it was the recycling of some stale ideas, and the project went nowhere:
Peter Todd @peterktodd These ideas were all considered in the Treechains design process, and ultimately rejected as insecure.
Just because Peter Todd rejected something as "insecure" doesn't mean that it is. In general, the ethereum research community is quite convinced that the fundamental Plasma design is fine, and as far as I understand there are formal proofs on the way. The only insecurity that can't be avoided is mass exit vulns, and channel-based systems have those too.
13/ The elephant in the room is the transition to proof-of-stake, an “environmentally friendly” way to secure the chain. (If this was the plan all along, why create a proof-of-work chain first?)
@TuurDemeester "Changing from proof of work to proof of stake changes the economics of the system, all the rules change and it will impact everything."
Umm... we created a proof of work chain first because we did not have a satisfactory proof of stake algo initially?
14/ For the uninitiated, here’s a good write-up that highlights some of the fundamental design problems of proof-of-stake. Like I said, this is science experiment territory.
And here's a set of long arguments from me on why proof of stake is just fine: For a more philosophical piece, see
15/ Also check out this thread about how Proof of Stake blockchains require subjectivity (i.e. a trusted third party) to achieve consensus: … and this thread on Bitcoin:
Yes, we know about weak subjectivity, see It's really not that bad, especially given that users need to update their clients once in a while anyway, oh and by the way even if the weak subjectivity assumption is broken an attacker still needs to gather up that pile of old keys making up 51% of the stake. And also to defend against that there's Universal Hash Time.
16/ Keep in mind that Proof of Stake (PoS) is not a new concept at all. Proof-of-Work actually was one of the big innovations that made Bitcoin possible, after PoS was deemed impractical because of censorship vulnerability.
@TuurDemeester TIL Proof-of-stake based private currency designs date at least back to 1998.
Oh I definitely agree that proof of work was superior for bootstrap, and I liked it back then especially because it actually managed to be reasonably egalitarian around 2009-2012 before ASICs fully took over. But at the present time it doesn't really have that nice attribute.
17/ Over the years, this has become a pattern in Ethereum’s culture: recycling old ideas while not properly referring to past research and having poor peer review standards. This is not how science progresses.Tuur Demeester added,
[email protected] has been repeatedly accused of /criticised for not crediting prior art. Once again with plasma:
I try to credit people whenever I can; half my blog and posts have a "special thanks" section right at the top. Sometimes we end up re-inventing stuff, and sometimes we end up hearing about stuff, forgetting it, and later re-inventing it; that's life as an autodidact. And if you feel you've been unfairly not credited for something, always feel free to comment, people have done this and I've edited.
18/ One of my big concerns is that sophistry and marketing hype is a serious part of Ethereum’s success so far, and that overly inflated expectations have lead to an inflated market cap.
Ok, go on.
19/ Let’s illustrate with an example.
20/ A few days ago, I shared a critical tweet that made the argument that Ethereum’s value proposition is in essence utopian.
@TuurDemeester Ethereum-ism sounds a bit like Marxism to me:
  • What works today (PoW) is 'just a phase', the ideal & unproven future is to come: Proof-of-Stake.…
21/ I was very serious about my criticism. In fact, each one of the three points addressed what Vitalik Buterin has described as “unique value propositions of Ethereum proper”.
22/ My first point, about Ethereum developers rejecting Proof-of-Work, has been illustrated many times over By Vitalik and others. (See earlier in this tweetstorm for more about how PoS is unproven.)
Vitalik Non-giver of Ether @VitalikButerin: I don't believe in proof of work!
See above for links as to why I think proof of stake is great.
23/ My second point addresses Ethereum’s romance with the vague and dangerous notion of ‘social consensus’, where disruptive hard-forks are used to ‘upgrade’ or ‘optimize’ the system, which inevitably leads to increased centralization. More here:
See my rebuttal to Tuur's rebuttal :)
24/ My third point addresses PoS’ promise of perpetual income to ETHizens. Vitalik is no stranger to embracing free lunch ideas, e.g. during his 2014 ETH announcement speech, where he described a coin with a 20% inflation tax as having “no cost” to users.
Yeah, I haven't really emphasized perpetual income to stakers as a selling point in years. I actually favor rewards being as low as possible while still being high enough for security.
25/ In his response to my tweet, Vitalik adopted my format to “play the same game” in criticizing Bitcoin. My criticisms weren't addressed, and his response was riddled with errors. Yet his followers gave it +1,000 upvotes!
Vitalik Non-giver of Ether @VitalikButerin: - What works today (L1) is just a phase, ideal and unproven future (usable L2) is to come - Utopian concept of progress: we're already so confident we're finished we ain't needin no hard forks…
Ok, let's hear about what the errors are...
26/ Rebuttal: - BTC layer 1 is not “just a phase”, it always will be its definitive bedrock for transaction settlement. - Soft forking digital protocols has been the norm for over 3 decades—hard-forks are the deviation! - Satoshi never suggested hyperbitcoinization as a goal.
Sure, but (i) the use of layer 1 for consumer payments is definitely, in bitcoin ideology, "just a phase", (ii) I don't think you can make analogies between consensus protocols and other kinds of protocols, and between soft forking consensus protocols and protocol changes in other protocols, that easily, (iii) plenty of people do believe that hyperbitcoinization as a goal. Oh by the way:
27/ This kind of sophistry is exhausting and completely counter-productive, but it can be very convincing for an uninformed retail public.
Ok, go on.
28/ Let me share a few more inconvenient truths.
29/ In order to “guarantee” the transition to PoS’ utopia of perpetual income (staking coins earns interest), a “difficulty bomb” was embedded in the protocol, which supposedly would force miners to accept the transition.
The intended goal of the difficulty bomb was to prevent the protocol from ossifying, by ensuring that it has to hard fork eventually to reset the difficulty bomb, at which point the status quo bias in favor of not changing other protocol rules at the same time would be weaker. Though forcing a switch to PoS was definitely a key goal.
30/ Of course, nothing came of this, because anything in the ETH protocol can be hard-forked away. Another broken promise.
Tuur Demeester @TuurDemeester: Looks like another Ethereum hard-fork is going to remove the "Ice Age" (difficulty increase meant to incentivize transition to PoS).
How is that a broken promise? There was no social contract to only replace the difficulty-bombed protocol with a PoS chain.
31/ Another idea that was marketed heavily early on, was that with ETH you could program smart contract as easily as javascript applications.
Tuur Demeester @TuurDemeester: I forgot, but in 2014 Ethereum was quite literally described as "Javascript-on-the-blockchain"
Agree that was over-optimistic, though the part of the metaphor that's problematic is the "be done with complex apps in a couple hours" part, NOT the "general-purpose languages are great" part.
32/ This was criticized by P2P & OS developers as a reckless notion, given that every smart contracts is actually a “de novo cryptographic protocol”. In other words, it’s playing with fire.
See above
33/ The modular approach to Bitcoin seems to be much better at compartmentalizing risk, and thus reducing attack surfaces. I’ve written about modular scaling here...
To be fair, risk is reduced because Bitcoin does less.
34/ Another huge issue that Ethereum has is with scaling. By putting “everything on the blockchain” (which stores everything forever) and dubbing it “the world computer”, you are going to end up with a very slow and clogged up system.
Christopher Allen @ChristopherA: AWS cost: $0.000000066 for calc, Ethereum: $26.55. This is about 400 million times as expensive. World computer?
We never advocated "putting everything on the blockchain". The phrase "world computer" was never meant to be interpreted as "everyone's personal desktop", but rather as a common platform specifically for the parts of applications that require consensus on shared state. As evidence of this, notice how Whisper and Swarm were part of the vision as complements to Ethereum right from the start.
35/ By now the Ethereum bloat is so bad that cheaply running an individual node is practically impossible for a lay person. ETH developers are also imploring people to not deploy more smart contract apps on its blockchain.
Tuur Demeester @TuurDemeester: But... deploying d-apps on the "Ethereum Virtual Machine" is exactly what everyone was encouraged to do for the past 4 years. Looks like on-chain scaling wasn't such a great idea after all.
Umm.... I just spun up a node from scratch last week. On a consumer laptop.
36/ As a result, and despite the claims that running a node in “warp” mode is easy and as good as a full node, Ethereum is becoming increasingly centralized.
@TuurDemeester Finally a media article touching on the elephant in the room: Ethereum has become highly centralized. #infura
See above
37/ Another hollow claim: in 2016, Ethereum was promoted as being censorship resistant…
Tuur Demeester @TuurDemeester: Pre TheDAO #Ethereum presentation: "uncensorable, code is law, bottom up".
Yes, the DAO fork did violate the notion of absolute immutability. However, the "forking the DAO will lead to doom and gloom" crowd was very wrong in one key way: it did NOT work as a precedent justifying all sorts of further state interventions. The community clearly drew a line in the sand by firmly rejecting EIP 867, and EIP 999 seems to now also be going nowhere. So it seems like there's some evidence that the social contract of "moderately but not infinitely strong immutability" actually can be stable.
38/ Yet later that year, after only 6% of ETH holders had cast a vote, ETH core devs decided to endorse a hard-fork that clawed back the funds from a smart contract that held 4.5% of all ETH in circulation. More here: ...
See above
39/ Other potential signs of centralization: Vitalik Buterin signing a deal with a Russian government institution, and ETH core developers experimenting with semi-closed meetings: …,
Hudson Jameson @hudsonjameson: The "semi-closed" Ethereum 1.x meeting from last Friday was an experiment. The All Core Dev meeting this Friday will be recorded as usual.
Suppose I were to tomorrow sign up to work directly for Kim Jong Un. What concretely would happen to the Ethereum protocol? I suspect very little; I am mostly involved in the Serenity work, and the other researchers have proven very capable of both pushing the spec forward even without me and catching any mistakes with my work. So I don't think any argument involving me applies. And we ended up deciding not to do more semi-closed meetings.
40/ Another red flag to me is the apparent lack of relevant expertise in the ETH development community. (Check the responses…)
Tuur Demeester @TuurDemeester: Often heard: "but Ethereum also has world class engineers working on the protocol". Please name names and relevant pedigree so I can follow and learn.
I personally am confident in the talents of our core researchers, and our community of academic partners. Most recently the latter group includes people from Starkware, Stanford CBR, IC3, and other groups.
41/ For a while, Microsoft veteran Lucius Meredith was mentioned as playing an important role in ETH scaling, but now he is likely distracted by the failure of his ETH scaling company RChain.
I have no idea who described Lucius Meredith's work as being important for the Serenity roadmap.... oh and by the way, RChain is NOT an "Ethereum scaling company"
42/ Perhaps the recently added Gandalf of Ethereum, with his “Fellowship of Ethereum Magicians” [sic] can save the day, but imo that seems unlikely...
Honestly, I don't see why Ethereum Gandalf needs to save the day, because I don't see what is in danger and needs to be saved...
43/ This is becoming a long tweetstorm, so let’s wrap up with a few closing comments.
44/ Do I have a conflict of interest? ETH is a publicly available asset with no real barriers to entry, so I could easily get a stake. Also, having met Vitalik & other ETH founders several times in 2013-’14, it would have been doable for me to become part of the in-crowd.
Agree there. And BTW I generally think financial conflicts of interest are somewhat overrated; social conflicts/tribal biases are the bigger problem much of the time. Though those two kinds of misalignments do frequently overlap and reinforce each other so they're difficult to fully disentangle.
45/ Actually, I was initially excited about Ethereum’s smart contract work - this was before one of its many pivots.
Tuur Demeester @TuurDemeester: Ethereum is probably the first programming language I will teach myself - who wouldn't want the ability to program smart BTC contracts?
Ethereum was never about "smart BTC contracts"..... even "Ethereum as a Mastercoin-style meta-protocol" was intended to be built on top of Primecoin.
46/ Also, I have done my share of soul searching about whether I could be suffering from survivor’s bias.
@TuurDemeester I just published “I’m not worried about Bitcoin Unlimited, but I am losing sleep over Ethereum”
Ok, good.
47/ Here’s why Ethereum is dubious to me: rather than creating an open source project & testnet to work on these interesting computer science problems, its founders instead did a securities offering, involving many thousands of clueless retail investors.
What do you mean "instead of"? We did create an open source project and testnet! Whether or not ETH is a security is a legal question; seems like SEC people agree it's not:
48/ Investing in the Ethereum ICO was akin to buying shares in a startup that had “invent time travel” as part of its business plan. Imo it was a reckless security offering, and it set the tone for the terrible capital misallocation of the 2017 ICO boom.
Nothing in the ethereum roadmap requires time-travel-like technical advancements or anything remotely close to that. Proof: we basically have all the fundamental technical advancements we need at this point.
49/ In my view, Ethereum is the Yahoo of our day - an unscalable “blue chip” cryptocurrency:
Tuur Demeester @TuurDemeester: 1/ The DotCom bubble shows that the market isn't very good at valuing early stage technology. I'll use Google vs. Yahoo to illustrate.
Got it.
50/ I’ll close with a few words from Gregory Maxwell from 2016,:
See my rebuttal to Greg from 2 years ago:
submitted by shouldbdan to ethtrader [link] [comments]

A brief history of the 2013 market peak; why some alts really do die; and what would've happened if you'd given in to FOMO

This piece is a follow-up to my earlier piece, which looked at what would’ve happened if you’d purchased alt-coins shortly after the bottom of the 2013-2015 bear market. A lot of the constructive criticism that I received was that I was too bullish on alt-coins, and that the timing was too convenient. Although it’s fair to say that I am bullish on crypto in general and alt-coins in particular (with several major caveats for both), I agree that it’s important to not just focus on historical analyses where it’s fairly clear that you could have earned money. So, today’s research question is whether you’d still be underwater if you’d bought in to the market at or near the 2013 all-time high. All information cited herein comes from the historical charts available at CoinMarketCap.
TL;DR: This worst-case scenario analysis shows that $300 invested equally across 15 of the 40 coins in existence near the market’s peak in 2013 would be worth only $429.95 today—gains which are entirely attributable to Bitcoin, Litecoin, and Ripple. This is basic, but it can be dangerous to buy high. This is especially true of alt-coins, but even the top three coins in our sample saw fairly lackluster results when bought at the top of the market. Finally, nothing in this post should be taken as investment advice. This is only intended as historical analysis. Past performance does not guarantee future returns.
A Brief History of the 2013 Market Peak
According to CoinMarketCap, the 2013 bull market peaked on December 4, 2013, at ~$15.87 billion in market capitalization.* Thereafter, the market crashed dramatically not once, but twice. In the first crash, which occurred between December 5-8, 2013, overall market cap fell by ~39% to ~$9.66 billion. Then, after a brief recovery to ~$13.57 billion on December 10th, the market fell precipitously, to ~$5.7 billion on December 18, 2013. Thus, over the course of only two weeks, from December 4-18, 2013, the market lost ~64% of its value. Although this was by no means the end of the 2013-2015 bear market--which lasted for approximately 17 months and saw an additional decline of ~45% from the December 18, 2013 low--this was the end of the beginning.
What If I Bought Crypto Right as the 2013 Market Peaked?
Generally, the first rule of trading is** that you want to buy low and sell high. As a result of their fear of missing out (“FOMO”), however, many people find themselves accidentally buying high. Today, I’m going to look at what would have happened to someone who bought their crypto right as the market was peaking. Ideally, I would run this experiment from December 4, 2013, but due to the limited data available from CoinMarketCap, I’m forced to choose between November 24th, December 1st, December 8th, and December 15th. Of those dates, I have selected December 1, 2013, because it represents the worst possible scenario for which I have data. On that date, total crypto market cap, which had hit a new high of ~$15.4 billion the day before, swung wildly between a high of ~$14.83 billion and a low of ~$12.18 billion. Unfortunately, it’s unclear exactly when CoinMarketCap’s snapshot was taken. That said, it’s clear that our hypothetical FOMO trader is about to lose his shirt over the next few weeks, so let’s dive into the specifics.
On December 1, 2013, there were 40 coins listed on CoinMarketCap. I won’t list them all here, but of those 40, all but 11 are still listed as active on CoinMarketCap. The truly dead (or “inactive”) coins are BBQCoin (BQC; rank 16), Devcoin (DVC; rank 19), Tickets (TIX; rank 22), Copperlark (CLR; rank 24), StableCoin (SBC; rank 25), Luckycoin (LKY—ironic, I realize; rank 31), Franko (FRK; rank 34), Bytecoin (BTE; rank 35), Junkcoin (JKE—how apt; rank 36), CraftCoin (CRC; rank 39), and Colossuscoin (COL; rank 40).***
Now, since this post is already incredibly long, instead of testing all 40 coins, let’s take a decently-sized sample of five coins each from the top, middle, and bottom of the stack, and look at what happens. For the middle, although the temptation is to take decent alts, let’s fight that and take the group with the highest failure rate: ranks 21-25. So, here’s out pool:
Now, here are how our sample of coins has performed as of when I write this:****
So, if our hypothetical FOMO trader had invested $100 in our top-five sample near the 2013 peak, it would currently be worth $411.80 (the profitable coins) + $3.06 (PPC) + $4.27 (NMC) = $419.13—a 4.19x increase.
Now for the two coins in the middle five that didn’t completely die:
So, if our hypothetical FOMO trader had invested $100 in our middle-five sample near the 2013 peak, it would currently be worth ~$15.19—an ~84.8% loss.
Finally, here are the two coins from the bottom five that didn’t completely die:
So, excluding everything buy Argentum, if our hypothetical FOMO trader had invested $100 in our bottom-five sample near the 2013 peak, it would currently be worth ~$2.96—a ~97% loss. Putting it all together, $300 invested in this sample of 15 coins as close to the peak of the 2013 market as the data will let me get, would be worth $429.95—a disappointing, but not-unexpected ~30.2% increase over five years. That said, I’m honestly somewhat amazed our FOMO trader made anything at all on this basket of coins, considering how many of them failed. In any case, all of his gains came from the top-three coins from 2013: Bitcoin, Litecoin, and Ripple.
What’s the lesson here, what’s the takeaway?***** Most importantly, I think the above analysis shows that it can be very dangerous to buy alt-coins when the market is at or near an all-time high—a conclusion that appears to be true regardless of where the alt is positioned in the market. That said, there are a few caveats: (1) this sample was intentionally bad, in order to reflect a worst-case scenario; (2) even buying the top-three coins at the all-time high didn’t net our FOMO trader particularly large gains when compared to someone who bought these same coins after the crash. Therefore, I think that the most important lesson here is not to buy high in the first place. Investing solely because of FOMO will probably cause you to lose money, unless you have invested equally in a broad range of cryptocurrencies, like the trader in our hypothetical. Even then, however, our FOMO trader probably would have done better investing in an S&P Index fund over the same period.
*This is a correction to my earlier piece, in which I stated that the cryptocurrency market peaked on November 30, 2013, at a total market capitalization of ~$15.2 billion. I made this error due to having failed to narrow the date range of the chart so I could properly zoon in. That said, the exact details of the market peak don’t affect the conclusions from my last piece, which considered trades made after the market had bottomed out.
** …you do not talk about trading. Wait, that’s the wrong rulebook.
*** Since I already typed it out, here’s the list of remaining active coins, in descending order: Bitcoin (BTC), Litecoin (LTC), Ripple (XRP), Peercoin (PPC), Namecoin (NMC), Megacoin (MEC), Feathercoin (FTC), WorldCoin (WDC), Primecoin (XPM), Freicoin (FRC), Novacoin (NVC), Zetacoin (ZET), Infinitecoin (IFC), Terracoin (TRC), Crypto Bullion (CBX), Anoncoin (ANC), Digitalcoin (DGC), GoldCoin (GLD), Yacoin (YAC), Ixcoin (IXC), Fastcoin (FST), BitBar (BTB), Mincoin (MNC), Tagcoin (TAG), FlorinCoin (FLO), I0Coin (I0C), Phoenixcoin (PXC), Argentum (ARG), Elacoin (ELC)
**** I know that we could have sold them sooner, and probably for more money, but let’s just assume that our hypothetical FOMO trader was a founding member of the #hodlgang. ;-)
***** Don’t mess with Maui when he’s on a breakaway! You’re welcome. ;-)
Disclosures: I have previous held Litecoin, and currently hold approximately $140 of Ripple. I do not believe this influenced my analysis in any way. I have never bought or held any of the other coins discussed in this analysis.
Edits: Formatting, typos, minor clarifications.
submitted by ThaneduFife to CryptoCurrency [link] [comments]

ULTIMATE CRYPTO FAUCET LIST - Abraham Lincoln and a cool list of cryptocurrency faucets for you and your shibe.

Four score and a couple of months ago a few crypto-faucet winners and losers popped up in my browser... SOME WERE THE BEST HOT DAMN FREE BITCOIN FAUCETS that a person could find and well some were not as fast...During the last decade the worlds developers and programmers brought forth on this planet the crypto-faucet in many different forms. Are all faucets created equal? They are not... Alright I know this isn't the Gettysburg address but who doesn't love Lincoln?
Here I have compiled The best Fun and Profitable Cryptocoin Faucet List for you. If you like this list you may use it to sign up for these great faucets and claim Bitcoin as well as many different Altcoins. These are referral links so I might get some fantastic referrals like you in exchange for creating this hopefully useful list.
One thing you will need is patience, if you are going to try to get some bitcoins or altcoins for free. it's not really free basically you are being given a very tiny amount of crypto-currency for watching internet advertising or for competing in games or challenges. There are also places you can get paid in Cryptocurrency for completing surveys or doing small tasks.
As with anything on the internet you use these at your own risk and do be careful out there in faucet land. Some of these pages have third party advertisers that will have some pretty crazy s**t pop up on you.
If you do want to go wandering around in faucet land, Here are some of my favourite bitcoin and altcoin faucets;
These are a few of the best i've found for Bitcoin!
FREE BITCO.IN - this one pays out daily interest once you have a high enough balance
The next seven faucets listed are for COINPOT a handy collector for your faucet claims. They payout quite quickly once you reach minimums.
BONUS BITCOIN: HINT; this one is great on it's own but it's even better if you find the settings and always claim the average amount! Unless you hit the jackpot this will always bring you more coins over the long run.
If you prefer Altcoin faucets these are very wOw! <3
Here is a site that GETS BONUS POINTS for having a funny name You can claim bitcoin quite often but it takes a long time to reach the threshold unless you have referrals. That's where you come in my friend please help me out and become a referral. Thank you very much! :-)
BITCOINKER! - update NOT PAYING as of July 2019 site admin please pay up!
Or another site you will need much patience to get a little EtherEum;
There are some sites that have games! and pay a little bit of coins for hanging out and playing some games. cool.
LOOTBITS! reviews not good probably scam -
If you like to claim quite a bit,do surveys, or get free coins through chat you might want to try: FAUCETHUB They give away quite a bit of free Potcoin (POT) as well as other coins such as DOGE and PRIMECOIN
If you like Faucethub and it's owner (s)he has another site that pays you for shortening your links: BTC-LINK SHORTENER
And this strange little crypto-game(?) is the one featured in the image for this post. While you can deposit to make the 'game' go faster you can also play for free and have the option of earning coins in other ways.
WEIRD LITTLE CRYPTO FARM GAME - - after "researching" this one it is probably a "loser" based on reviews found on various forums. That said I'm hangin' in there for now to see what happens.
CLOUD MINE FOR FREE - ON EOBOT if you are so inclined. You will need to either claim from their faucet everyday and put it into GHS rental or transfer funds from other faucets to get started just message me here if you are having trouble.
This faucet claiming and "cloud mining" is all very experimental and profits are very small. At the end of the day; PERHAPS IT IS BETTER JUST TO OUTRIGHT BUY COINS - Through this exchange BINANCE
Who knows if anyone is really making much on this stuff or not. Join one or join them all the more the merrier. So that's the list. I hope all you faucet seekers or curious browsers find it useful and or interesting. Good luck out there and if you have any questions about any of them please feel free to message me. All the best in your search for freedom and equality!
*don't forget to upvote!
submitted by CRYPTOGLYPHi to dogeforfree [link] [comments]

B4U offers Bitcoin Exchange in Kuala Lumpur

One cannot deny the fact that cryptocurrencies are the new future. The world is a live witness that paper money is losing its value and Digital coins are taking over. In this era where internet is the king everything is going digital be it banking, insurance or Currencies.
B4U offers the Buying, Selling and Exchanging of Cryptocurrencies at Affordable Rates
The business tycoons of the world are the biggest advocates of virtual currencies and they are making sure they are investing in it. Elon Musk has almost verified that paper money is on its last legs and is losing value and the founder of Twitter is making sure he is investing a great deal in digital coins.
The Fascination is real. The charisma is real. Common men, middle class men or elites are in digital currencies grip and it’s almost certain that these currencies are going to be the talk of town for a very long time. There are many types of crypto currencies which one can find in the digital market like Bitcoin, Ethereum, Litecoin, Namecoin, Peercoin, Dogecoin, Gridcoin, Primecoin, Bitcoin cash to name a few.
The most famous among them are Bitcoin (BTC) they have been the talk of town since their inception in 2009. It’s creator Sotoshi Nakamoto has an ambiguous identity but the coins are very famous. They have gripped the entire nation since their inception and they are soaring high with every passing day.

Save money in the Exchange of Bitcoin at Kuala Lumpur

The value of one BTC is $3,980 but the local exchange will sell you BTC in a much higher price and in case you have few BTC with you and you want to swap them with your local currency which is Ringgit the local exchange will charge you for it via taxes so what’s the way out? You have some digital coins in your pocket and you want to trade them for local currency but what about taxes? How can one evade them? Well there definitely is a way out and that way out is offered by the reputed B4U. They have the Bitcoins ATM machine installed and from there you can business your virtual currency without concerning yourself about taxes. You won’t have to pay much and your BTC will be exchanged too.

B4U offer the best deals for the exchange of Bitcoin in Kuala Lumpur

B4U is reputed to have executed hundreds of successful deals in the buying, selling and exchanging of digital currencies. If you want to buy BTC or any other digital currency that option is available here. If you want to sell or swap your virtual currencies that option too is available here. We have the best deals available for our valued customers and we don’t charge them much. With B4U it’s very easy to be the owner of Digital coins and if you want to disown your coins it’s OK B4U will exchange them in your local currency as well.
The best place to get your BTC Exchanged in Kuala Lumpur
We are well aware what happen in exchanges. When we get to them to buy, sell or exchange our digital coins or tokens they charge us the heavy fee and not just the fee they try to invade a lot in our privacy. These are just some issues, there is one other problem at local BTC exchanges and that is mostly they don’t give us the option of having our crypto currency changed into local Currency but you don’t need to fret. We know of a place where the BTC can be exchanged into Local ringgit without much tax. This place is B4U and we have what you want.
B4U will give you Ringgits for your coins without bothering your with the unnecessary taxes

Exchange your virtual currencies into local currencies

The best thing about B4U is if you have Bitcoins or any other virtual currency in your wallet that can be exchanged into all the other currencies. If you are in need of dollars we can give them to you in barter of your crypto. If you need pounds, rupees or any other currency B4U has that option available and you can avail that by trading your crypto with us. We have vowed to make it all easy for our valued customers so if you want the best deals in virtual currencies you can have them from us.

A Golden chance for investors! Invest in virtual currencies

Things are changing rapidly in today’s era. Things which were the sensation a year ago have been replaced with newer addictions. It seems like yesterday when Facebook was the sensation in social media but now things have changed since Instagram has taken everyone in its grip.
Paper money was once a great deal. We have lived with it all our lives but since the inception of internet things have changed, now its the era of crypto. Cryptocurrency are taking everyone into its storm and it is visibly taking over the paper money. First credit cards mocked the value of paper money now its the crypto. Virtual currencies are the sensation because of one more thing, there is a chance of profit in it. For instance if you buy one bitcoin for now you will get it in $3,980 but months later its value will double or even triple so in case you intend to sell your cryptocurrencies after few months you will earn a huge profit out of it.
There is a reason why the world is going gaga after digital coins, they create the chance of earning huge profit out of them. Bitcoins and Ethereum are clearly taking the lead. Back then when they came into the market they were cheap but now you can’t have them unless you have enough cash with you. You shouldn’t buy the crypto just because everyone else is buying it, you should buy it because they can generate the revenue for you. B4U has the best deals available and if you want to make a profit in cryptocurrencies it’s the right place to come to in Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia.

The ATM Machine will save you a lot of Trouble

Local Exchange are everywhere in Malaysia. The buying, selling and exchanging of crypto currencies are possible at a lot of places but there is a place which has an edge over other exchanges. This place is the ATM machine in B4U.
With the availability of ATM machine in Kuala Lumpur it’s a lot easier for the people of Malaysia to have crypto in their access. While the local exchanges will charge you the heavy fee in the buying and selling of virtual currencies the ATM won’t charge you much. You can have your desired coins from the machine after inserting cash. The machine won’t invade your privacy and the method is pretty quick as well. You get a receipt 20 minutes later after inserting your cash.
In the exchanges usually there is so intense an interrogation that a customer feels offended but when you know that you have all the keys in your own hand that you will just have to fill up some of your info with the cash then there is nothing to worry about.
B4U ATM Machine on google map
Customers like the things which are easy to operate and the ATM machine installed in B4U can be operated by a layman as well.
As we all know it’s the era of digital currencies. Only that one is successful in this age who is investing in the right place. So invest in crypto because it promises a great future.
More Articles about B4U ATM Machine


B4U offers the buying, selling and exchanging of cryptocurrencies at affordable rates. The ATM machine installed in B4U can be used to buy, sell and exchange the virtual currencies. Be in touch with us and secure yourself a great deal.


335A Melawati Urban 1 Lorong Serawak, 53100 Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia


Monday to Friday
10:00 am to 6:00 pm
Saturday and Sunday is closed.
submitted by B4U_Wallet_Exchange to btc [link] [comments]

Abraham Lincoln, A Fun List of Cryptocurrency Faucets and Gaming for Coins!

Four score and a couple of months ago a few crypto-faucet winners and losers popped up in my browser... SOME WERE THE BEST HOT DAMN FREE BITCOIN FAUCETS that a person could find and well some were not as fast...During the last decade the worlds developers and programmers brought forth on this planet the crypto-faucet in many different forms. Are all faucets created equal? They are not... Alright I know this isn't the Gettysburg address but who doesn't love Lincoln?
Here I have compiled The best Fun and Profitable Cryptocoin Faucet List for you. If you like this list you may use it to sign up for these great faucets and claim Bitcoin as well as many different Altcoins. These are referral links so I might get some fantastic referrals like you in exchange for creating this hopefully useful list.
One thing you will need is patience, if you are going to try to get some bitcoins or altcoins for free. it's not really free basically you are being given a very tiny amount of crypto-currency for watching internet advertising or for competing in games or challenges. There are also places you can get paid in Cryptocurrency for completing surveys or doing small tasks.
As with anything on the internet you use these at your own risk and do be careful out there in faucet land. Some of these pages have third party advertisers that will have some pretty crazy s**t pop up on you.
If you do want to go wandering around in faucet land, Here are some of my favourite bitcoin and altcoin faucets;
These are a few of the best i've found for Bitcoin!
FREE BITCO.IN - this one pays out daily interest once you have a high enough balance
The next seven faucets listed are for COINPOT a handy collector for your faucet claims. They payout quite quickly once you reach minimums.
BONUS BITCOIN: HINT; this one is great on it's own but it's even better if you find the settings and always claim the average amount! Unless you hit the jackpot this will always bring you more coins over the long run.
If you prefer Altcoin faucets these are very wOw! <3
Here is a site that GETS BONUS POINTS for having a funny name You can claim bitcoin quite often but it takes a long time to reach the threshold unless you have referrals. That's where you come in my friend please help me out and become a referral. Thank you very much! :-)
BITCOINKER! - update NOT PAYING as of July 2019 site admin please pay up!
Or another site you will need much patience to get a little EtherEum;
There are some sites that have games! and pay a little bit of coins for hanging out and playing some games. cool.
LOOTBITS! reviews not good probably scam -
If you like to claim quite a bit,do surveys, or get free coins through chat you might want to try: FAUCETHUB They give away quite a bit of free Potcoin (POT) as well as other coins such as DOGE and PRIMECOIN
If you like Faucethub and it's owner (s)he has another site that pays you for shortening your links: BTC-LINK SHORTENER
And this strange little crypto-game(?) is the one featured in the image for this post. While you can deposit to make the 'game' go faster you can also play for free and have the option of earning coins in other ways.
WEIRD LITTLE CRYPTO FARM GAME - - after "researching" this one it is probably a "loser" based on reviews found on various forums. That said I'm hangin' in there for now to see what happens.
CLOUD MINE FOR FREE - ON EOBOT if you are so inclined. You will need to either claim from their faucet everyday and put it into GHS rental or transfer funds from other faucets to get started just message me here if you are having trouble.
This faucet claiming and "cloud mining" is all very experimental and profits are very small. At the end of the day; PERHAPS IT IS BETTER JUST TO OUTRIGHT BUY COINS - Through this exchange BINANCE
Who knows if anyone is really making much on this stuff or not. Join one or join them all the more the merrier. So that's the list. I hope all you faucet seekers or curious browsers find it useful and or interesting. Good luck out there and if you have any questions about any of them please feel free to message me. All the best in your search for freedom and equality!
submitted by CRYPTOGLYPHi to u/CRYPTOGLYPHi [link] [comments]

New to Cryptocurrency? Please read this, my advice from following the crypto community.

Hey folks --
Incredibly unexpectedly to me, DogeCoin seems to have struck a chord with the world, and now I'm seeing all sorts of new people into cryptocurrency. Welcome! To me, the cryptocurrency scene is utterly fascinating. However, as it is so new and money is involved, it can be quite dangerous. So, I'd like to share some advice that I've attained through being involved in the community for awhile:
This is the main point I want to make, and the rest are just supporting details. There are good people and there are scammers. There are opportunities to grow and learn and contribute cool things, and there are sharks that will take advantage of people and fraud them out of money. There are genuine market dynamics as well alongside massive manipulation, and it's hard to tell which is which without studying it for awhile. There aren't any rules, there can be rampant greed a times, there are always bubbles on bubbles on bubbles (see -- this basically shows that humans naturally make financial bubbles and how the entire market is ruled by psychology). I have no doubt that cryptocurrency will be studied for years, academically, as "what happens in a free market." Fascinating stuff. Just know what you're getting yourself into!
First of all, buying cryptocurrency is not really investing, it's much closer to gambling. I have never recommended purchase of any crypto with dollars to anyone, but I always recommend mining, because it's quite inexpensive and makes it easier to treat these coins as magic funny money. Pretty much all cryptocurrency "value" is just the amount of bitcoin people are trading it for, and bitcoin is an extremely volatile asset that can and has dropped in value 50%+ overnight, and that isn't any different with DogeCoin.
This is why I want to keep the DogeCoin community lighthearted. It's never fun to lose money, but everyone needs to understand that, unless they are just mining, any money they put into it can be lost. Not trying to scare everyone away! Just be careful.
Even though I wouldn't recommend purchasing over mining, if you insist, I would always recommend going through, purchasing bitcoin, and trading it for dogecoin at market value on one of the major exchanges (bter, vircurex, coinedup, imo. Cryptsy, as you have seen, is a bit of a toilet) as opposed to purchasing anything on ebay/paypal, even though it is faster. First of all, people mark up the price on ebay, because they are targetting newbies. Second of all, paypal will not honor any cryptocurrency agreement, so if the buyer files a dispute, the seller won't get the money - another reason for markup. This goes for selling as well, for the same reasons.
The vast majority of people are honest, but not everyone, so be careful and diligent. Don't use the same password twice, set up 2-factor authentication wherever you can. Forums often get hacked and steal passwords, and sometimes site operators aren't safe and have your passwords hidden in plaintext.
Your wallet.dat file holds are your coins. If you lose that, you are toast. If someone copies that file from you, they can steal all your coins. You want to encrypt it and use a very strong password, and back it up - on a thumb drive, etc. Or export the private key and write it down somewhere (google paper wallet for how to accomplish this)
Note that there is a bug right now for some windows platforms when encrypting the wallet. I'll fix it soon..ish... >_<
When you're using an exchange, pool, or online wallet, keep in mind that at any point they can go down or be hacked. It's best to keep the payout threshold low in pools and only keep money in online exchanges you find trustworthy with 2-factor authentication. Considering its newness, DogeCoin does not yet have long running trusted services, so of course not saying dogewallet (or any other wallet service that will come about for dogecoin) is untrustworthy, but that it is a risk to keep too much coin in any type of online wallet.
(Note - dogewallet turned out to be a unsafe/compromised/maybe a scam)
If you're mining Dogecoin with a graphics card, you can also mine with your CPU at the same time (though generally you'll need to use MAX_CPU_THREADS - 1 to avoid issues). There are some coins that are essentially CPU only -- the most interesting of these, I find, are Primecoin and Protoshares. The easiest way to do this is to go through and follow the instructions from that site. Both these coins are well established and have interesting algorithms. Mining two coins at once -- much profit!
This is my last piece of advice to all. This is the tone I hope to always keep for DogeCoin. The cryptocommunity is full of elitism and greed, and it makes sense in from a psychological standpoint. People get very invested and want to thwart away anything that entrenches on their territory. I hope that the DogeCoin community will never get that way. I want us to understand how that happens and resist it. Even though 5 new coins just came out that essentially cut and paste DogeCoin, we don't need to trash their coins and feign being superior to everyone - there will be many more popular coins that come out in the future. And really, I mean, c'mon. I slapped a dog on a coin :) Let's remember that and continue to do what I am seeing right now, which is incredibly welcoming, generous, and fun.
Thanks folks. Enjoy your holidays :)
submitted by BillyM2k to dogecoin [link] [comments]

CMV: Anyone Who Believes Vertcoin's Price Will Increase Once Powerful Scrypt ASICs Come Out Doesn't Understand Demand-Side Economics

I see plenty of people speculating that Vertcoin will explode in value once Scrypt ASICs come out. I personally feel otherwise. The Adaptive scrypt-n and Kimitos Gravity well only appeals to miners-the producers. It does not appeal to many people wanting to buy. We will certainly see a lot of miners moving to Vertcoin once their huge GPU farms cannot profit when competing against 200 MH/s ASICs.
Now, with a cryptocurrency it is a little different because quantitative supply is static-more people mining it only reduces the amount each person gets. But more people will likely be selling mined Vertcoins as they are desperate to pay off their investment in GPU farms. So the effective supply would be higher due to increased pressure to sell by new miners.They will be willing to sell at any price as long as they can pay off electricity- any less, and they will stop mining and sell off their video cards.
But what people seem to fail to understand is that supply does not drive demand. Unless Vertcoin does something to appeal to others besides miners, there will be no increase in demand. All we will see is an increase in supply(due to more being sold, the actual "supply" is static, but the traded amount would increase), no increase in demand. This would lower prices. The people with dozens of video cards aren't looking to buy Vertcoin, they're looking to mine and sell it to make a quick buck. There is NO increase in demand resulting from this.
Just look at Primecoin, mining that is horribly unprofitable. While AFAIK its only mineable by CPU, without free electricity you're mining at a loss even on a nice I7 CPU. This is a related example of how supply of a crypto-currency does not drive demand. It does not matter how "fair" or "useful" the mining is, if no one has any reason to buy it in the first place.
We can continue to advertise about how great our coin is, and pressure merchants to accept it, but we won't get anywhere. It just doesn't compete with the age of Bitcoin, the culture and size behind Dogecoin, or the size behind Litecoin. We need to do something big that appeals to everyone, and makes us the next big thing. ASIC resistance should just be one of our big perks. Without demand, the coin is worthless.
submitted by skilliard4 to vertcoin [link] [comments]

Primecoin Profitability Calculations and mini Guide

So you want to mine Primecoins.
See this analysis bellow for today : (30/11/2013)
The current price of 1 Primecoin (XPM) = 0.00640010 Bitcoins (BTC)
The current payout barrier for the only good pool ( is 3.01 XPM
3.01 XPM equals to 0.0192003 BTC
0.0192003 BTC = 21.86 USD
Your aim is to mine 3.01 XPM as fast as possible at current difficulty 9.985399019
To mine 3.01 Primecoins per 24 hours you need about 21 Chains Per Day.
At this rate you can make 655 USD per month
On my MacMini (2010) I can make 1 chain per day,
On a big HP server with dual XEON I can make 2.5 chains a day
On the 20 Core Droplet in Digital Ocean you can make 2.6 chains a day
You would need about 8 of those machines to achieve this. (This means that you would need 2 accounts as there is a 5 droplet limit per account).
When you signup you pay $5 through paypal and get a bonus of $10 if you use the code "LINUX13" during checkout.
The cost to operate those machines for 24 hours is :
0.941 x 24 x 8 = $180
$-180 cost - $10 bonus + $5 deposit + $21.86 = -$163 profit
This means that you do not make profit currently, but you could always signup, pay the paypal fee and have the machines on until they suspend you since you do not setup any credit card or auto payment but this will be a one off and get you started with some coins that you can trade in cryptsy.
You can always sell the BTC at like double price in small increments in ebay and make up for the losses but it does not worth the hassle
At the current trends it looks like primecoin will rise , at least triple, and in combination with the bitcoin price rise it might worth mining or at least setup the infrastructure to mine.
Personally I have destroyed all my droplets and keep them on standby and wait for the price to rise. I have an image ready that can restore to any droplet i create to start mining whenever I want. Trying to be pro-active. I am using some work PCs and old server that you can buy for like 200 on ebay to make those 3XPMs a day currently.
Lastly here are the commands to start mining on a ubuntu 13 x64bit when you get your hands on. Login as root, do a sudo -s and then
mkdir ~/.primecoin
echo "rpcuser=none
gen=1" > ~/.primecoin/primecoin.conf
sudo apt-get update
sudo apt-get install bzip2 -y
sudo apt-get install git -y
sudo apt-get install git-core -y
sudo apt-get install subversion -y
sudo apt-get install checkinstall -y
sudo apt-get install build-essential -y
sudo apt-get install libssl-dev -y
sudo apt-get install libboost-all-dev -y
sudo apt-get install libdb5.1-dev -y
sudo apt-get install libdb5.1++-dev -y
sudo apt-get install libgtk2.0-dev -y
sudo apt-get install libgmp3-dev -y
tar jxvf download
cd primecoin-0.1.2-hp11
cd src
make -f makefile.unix USE_UPNP=-
./primecoind -pooluser=AUd61zfP6oM6LicMkwtxsn1TU8R4ZdLJ9Z -poolpassword=0 -poolip= -poolport=1337 -genproclimit=20 &
watch -d -n 5 './primecoind getmininginfo && ./primecoind getdifficulty && ./primecoind listtransactions "*" 1 0'
(make sure you replace the mining address above with your mining address)
That is all for today , I hope some people find it useful :)
submitted by upggr to primecoin [link] [comments]

Exchanged.i2p Anonymous Exchange

Anonymous Crypto Currency Exchange July 9 2015
GRAND OPENING! We at exchanged.i2p are happy to announce the grand opening of exchanged.i2p(beta) the worlds first fully anonymous crypto currency exchange. We hope you enjoy it as much as we enjoyed developing it. The site can be access directly via I2P, simply download I2P from and set your browser to use the http proxy at localhost port 4444. You may also access the site via an I2P inproxy such as with limited functionality over tor or the clearnet. If you have trouble accessing the exchange via exchanged.i2p please try: http://ylmulgfskl6uiwac4hw4ecwqdzd3oxtwaemzj25zc6k5q4rkexra.b32.i2p
FREE COINS on IRC: We are constantly raining free coins from multiple tip bots in our IRC2P channel.
Start I2P Point your irc client at /join #exchange
Key Features: Standard buy/sell orders Bote support Password only login PGP only(no username) login Dual auth(Password&PGP) login Darkpool trades off orderbook Instant trades filled at any price
Supported Currencies: Anoncoin ANC Bitcoin BTC Dogecoin DOGE Dogecoindark DOGED Litecoin LTC Peercoin PPC Primecoin XMP Vertcoin VTC
Coming Soon: Bitshares BTS Blackcoin BLK Dash DASH Monero XMR Namecoin NMC Nubits NBT Ybcoin YBC
Features in Development: More coins Trading API Margin trades Short trades Stop orders More charts Desktop trading client
[email protected] GPG: ExchangeD.i2p/contact
Please report any bugs or problems immediately.
submitted by kitsu_exchange to CryptoCurrency [link] [comments]

At this point, isn't buying cryptos just like playing the lottery? [serious]

I've been doing what I would consider to be some pretty in depth research and it seams to me, like the more I learn about them, the more they seem to be completely unpredictable and in many instances unnecessary.
I have been buying in to several different types recently - but I can't wrap my head around a world with 5/10/50/100 different currencies for different things.... I think that 1-3 would be sufficient. Bitcoin - everything transparent and open -- darkcoin for things that you want to keep private ie: porn, prostitution, etc -- and if I have to buy darkcoin with dollars/btc within an exchange... dont people still see that initial transaction from btc to darkcoin?? What's anonymous about that?
what specific items/services would require a special currency? Is there really a need for potcoins? or dogecoins? litecoins/primecoins/goldcoins and blahcoins and whatever other fuckin name they come up with?
Is this newly exploding crytpo "industry" a race to popularity? Will brand recognition eventually win out like it does in every industry? Does that mean marketing dollars and word of mouth?
Sorry to bring my ignorance here but no one in my immediate world can answer any of these questions or carry on a decent conversation because they have never heard half of these terms.
Thanks for your opinions, thoughts, etc!
Edit: Thanks very much for all the opinions!
Edit 2: It seems like a crap shoot to me and it also seems like bitcoin has already "won"... and most of the "late" (still early by all means - but you know what I mean) adopters are just mad that they missed the boat. With many companies already adopting it and some of the exchanges getting massive financial backing - ATMs popping up everywhere... it seems like its over already - just many ppl havent thrown in the towel.
submitted by Noremac921 to CryptoCurrency [link] [comments]

Another Primcoin Mining in the Cloud Thread

Hi, long time listener, first time caller -
There are a few Primecoin threads on here and most of them seem to be a few months old. I can add some value from recent experience as the game has changed significantly since the begining of December; Primecoin has dropped to less than US$3/xpm and the difficulty has gone above 10. I expected the value to have increased, but then most of the world went on holiday about that time, too.
There are a few threads recommending Digital Ocean - DigitalOcean is not happy giving more than 5 VPS services to any one client, especially if they figure out you're mining. I know this sounds lame, but think of the business model that VPS is about and understand they won't survive this way - imagine all the gym subscribers actually going to gym everyday for two hours - what would membership cost then? Anyhow, it makes more sense to spread out your load, get VPSs from different providers in different datacentres, that way, you won't screw yourself if you happen to get all your 10 mining serviers on the same 5 physical cores.
I wrote three guides while researching Primecoin, they are all here:
Each uses a differenet client and I used three providers in the testing - DigitalOcean, VPSNine and Server4You. On average, the best datacentres were the ones in big busy cities - Dusseldorf, New York, Switzerland because that's where the VPS provider spends the most money because thats where the big money clients are. Potential and laods varied during each day as those business centres woke up, worked and went to sleep and the biggest gain I made was realising that leaving a miner running for as long as posible made it more profitable over time - I'm still not sure how this is, but I have spreadsheets to show this.
I can say hand on heart that PPS (PrimesPerSecond) is a very bad way to measure performance of mining because there are so many variables to mining that it would be like saying a particular model of Ferrari is faster because it's engine can rev to 20k rpm. Furthermore, each pool has different ways of allocating shares.
Finally, if you're going to build a fleet, try to get some knowledge about how virtualisation works, it will help you detemine loads and potential.
Today I have a fleet of 25VPSs and one physical 8core server and gain about 2.5XPMs per day purely on CPU mining - GPU mining is not yet a consideration for me. The eight core server averages 90% of the VPS, and I think this is because the VPS services are newer processors and spread out so that my core neighbours are possibly websites, not other miners.
My fleet is only just profitable now that XPM is under US$3 but I believe that will change when everybody goes back to work after the December break as quickly as it changed when everybody went on holiday. Also, the value for me was not so much having XPM to one day convert to cash (maybe), but having a free thing that I can trade for Bitcoins and eventually cash or rent mining rigs etc. , also, having gained some large scale mining experience and the ability to work with large fleets of servers.
I make about an extra 10% per week trading my XPMs on markets in my spare time (buy low, sell high).
My guides are free, they do have affiliate links to try to cover my costs and time to write them. Please be positively critical, I have only recently decided to start a technical blog with my years and years of technical notes and would appreciate constructive feedback.
Many thanks, I hope XPM mining works positively for you.
Best regards
submitted by gundnz to primecoin [link] [comments]


Buying mining contracts from mining companies does not guarantee ROI in a specified period of time due to BTC difficaulty issue and payments usually don't arrive in due time which rises a lot of suspicion and anxiety.Try out CONTROL FINANCE and you will not regret I started with $10 until when i was satisfied it wasn't a scam that i deposited $100,later $300 to be VIP and i have already gotten my ROI.This blockchain technology is making millionaires and i am starting to feel like one.
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Affilliate program (Invite your friends to open a Cryptonator account and you both get $10 USD referral premium) ....Use this link to get $10 when you exchange within the wallet
submitted by Frastd to ControlFinance [link] [comments]

The Bitcoin Support System

In the spirit of creating original content for this sub, I thought I'd do a post about some overlooked aspects of the bitcoin ecosystem that supports the bitcoin price.
The original faucet was of course created by Gavin Andreson in 2010 to give people a little share of bitcoin and spread the idea around. His faucet was a simple dispensing page. However people took his idea and created a mini-industry funded by advertising.
The reason I've mentioned faucets as part of the bitcoin support system is that they convert fiat into bitcoin. That is, they earn fiat from advertising (usually Google Adsense) and spend a portion of this money on actually buying bitcoin and dispensing it from their faucet.
The following article follows someone who set up a faucet from scratch and how he made some profits out of it:
His faucet was dispensing some $225 a month in bitcoins.
Faucetbox lists a stagerring 743 bitcoin fauctes:
Even if each dispensed a conservative average of $100 worth of coins a month, that amounts to $74300 a month converted from fiat to bitcoin or $891000 per annum. Some faucets dispense much more of course - the big faucets like dispense several thousand dollars worth of coins each month.
Note that if a competitor to bitcoin was to emerge, we'd see them first in the faucet space because a) popular coins tend to have users eagerly trying to collect the coins creating demand and b) faucets catering to those users are converting fiat into those particular alts, supporting their price. Faucetbox has 148 litecoin faucets, 248 dogecoin faucets, 41 peercoin faucets, 18 primecoin faucets, and 63 Dark faucets. The much ballyhooed ethereum is absent...
Scrypt Pools
Scrypt pools mine scrypt based proof-of-work alts and then sell those alts to buy bitcoin to pay their miners. In the process they convert potential competitors to bitcoin into a giant support system for bitcoin.
However, if scyypt pools opt to pay out in other coins, then they become a support system for that alternative coin. Prohashing gave an interview to Forbes where they report:
Changes in behaviors by Prohashing’s miners also indicate that they recognize problems with the Bitcoin network. Every time there’s a problem with congestion, he says more of its miners choose to be paid in a competing currency
Here's the Prohashing payout chart:
About 70% of their miners are still opting to be paid in BTC. The others are opting for Litecoin, Ehereum, Dash, Digitalcoin and others.
A similar pattern can be seen from the scrypt pool "Xpool". Of their top 20 hashers, 14 are opting to be paid in alts (Dash, Bitcoindark, NXY and Litecoin). See
The scrypt pools arn't as big a support system as the faucets - but between them and the faucets they produce a steady regular monthly support for bitcoin and act as demand for the new coins being generated by the miners.
If this support disappeared or switched to another cryotocurrency, BTC would have to rely purely on speculators to supply demand for the coin.
submitted by aenor to btc [link] [comments]

Elastichosts is not PrimeMining friendly... actually, just plain old not friendly at all

Just received a very lengthy email from someone apparently in either sales or verification at elastichosts. With pedantic analogies he went on to ask why I'd be foolish enough to try to "win a race on foot when everyone else has a formula 1". Then went on to say, the only possible reason I'd want their services, is that I was attempting to somehow convert stolen credit cards via laundering to bitcoin.
He suggested I take my "stolen cards" and buy mail order goods that could be resold.
In a very short response I pointed out I was interested in mining primecoin, which to my understanding could only use CPU's and not bitcoin to which he gave me a lengthy "schooling"
I'll edit out my info and post it if there's interest, but the kicker is... his name was synonymous with one of my favorite singers. Oh I've seen fire and I've seen rain!
submitted by ckurtis to primecoinmining [link] [comments]

Any special requests for an eCommerce site?

I have been aware of bitcoins for quite a while but only recently discovered the numerous alternatives that are out there. I was attracted to Primecoin because you have to use the CPU to mint new coins and GPU/ASIC mining will likely never be able to work with Primecoin. I also like how the currency is not finite, and there is a natural inflation that can occur. These are the two stark differences with Primecoin that I believe give it lasting value.
What I want to do is start a small web store that uses Primecoin and possibly one or two other alt currencies.
Now this might sound crazy, and I understand some of the financial risks involved in such a venture, but I would like to price my items not based on their USD value, but in their 'Primecoin' value. I have looked at other sites that accept Bitcoins and what I see are things listed in their USD value and then paid for in Bitcoins based on their USD exchange rate. In my opinion, for Primecoin or any other crypto currency to make the leap from being just a speculative commodity to a currency that people believe in, and its value coming from the faith that it is better than USD, it needs to be treated as such.
I am willing to take a small enough risk to try and start an ecommerce site that prices it's items in Primecoins. It might be hard to convince people to buy something with their Primecoins, when they know they can get X amount in USD on an exchange. But I do believe there is an opportunity and that is why I would like opinions on what types of items would be appealing enough for someone to use their Primecoins in a marketplace, and not in an exchange.
Thoughts on any of this?
submitted by peaprotein to primecoin [link] [comments]

Using the Bitcoin protocol for more than just money

I think Bitcoin is a very interesting technology, and I'm glad to see it's taking off. But at the same time, I think it could be so much more. The real interesting technology is the block chain. With a few improvements and minor modifications, it could be the basis of much more than a digital currency. Namecoin and Bitmessage are two examples of other uses for a block chain, but AFAIK each uses their own, independent chain and network. I feel like should be possible to combine them.
Please mind that I haven't studied the protocol in extreme detail and I'm not a mathematician or a cryptographer, so I might be wrong on some understandings of the details. Corrections are highly welcomed.
Please also don't just view this as another "Bitcoin protocol sux, here's how it should be done" post. That's only the first section. ;-)

Improving the protocol

Firstly, I think the biggest issue Bitcoin (and all alternatives I know of) has is overhead. The block chain is several gigabytes, and bitcoind likes to choke my network with a lot of connections and big uploads.
Maybe the growth of technology will outpace the growth of Bitcoin's resource needs, but I don't think we can rely on that. Phones have been stuck at ~16GB of internal storage for quite a while now (maybe there are some reaching 32 and 64GB, but I don't know of any), and internet service is actually making backward progress in much of the western world - slower connections and tighter caps. One of Bitcoin's goals is also to prevent being controlled by any government or central authority - but if it relies on fast network connections, that's something an oppressive government can easily restrict to choke it.
Especially for a new client, to have to download the entire block chain can be daunting. And for a mobile client, the amount of network I/O seems like far too much for the piddly data caps mobile networks have, and the block chain would quickly eat up their available storage.

Size of the block chain

My understanding is that the solution to the blockchain size issue is to create a new genesis block; essentially replace the entire chain with a single block containing a hash of all previous blocks and start chaining again from there. But as far as I know, this is something that the Bitcoin developers have to do manually with a change to the source code (which also means they have to be able to do it - what if they disappear?), and this hasn't been done yet. This new genesis block creation needs to be built into the protocol and happen automatically, so that the chain never grows too large.

Network strain

As for network issues, I don't know why Bitcoin requires so much overhead, but I believe it's from clients transmitting large portions of the block chain (sometimes the entire chain) to new clients who don't have it. I think a simple solution here would be to download small chunks from many clients instead of large chunks from a few clients. The new client still has to download all the blocks it's missing, but the sending clients don't need to upload as much, so their connections won't be as strained.

Block generation rate

One thing I've never understood is why blocks are generated at 10-minute intervals. Litecoin shortens that to 2.5 minutes, but that's still fairly long. 10 minutes might be plenty of time if you're ordering online, but if you want Bitcoin to completely replace fiat currency, it needs to be as fast as fiat currency. Nobody wants to wait 2.5 minutes (let alone 10) in the grocery store or fast food drive-thru for their transaction to go through. Cash payments can be as simple as handing over a bill, and debit payments can complete in a few seconds.
The usual suggestion for how to resolve this is to put some Bitcoin in an account, controlled by some payment processor, so that when you later want to actually buy something, you just ask the processor to transfer from your account and they can do so immediately, and the shopkeeper can trust that the transaction will go through. But isn't this just a bank? How can we be sure we can trust the payment processors to not just run off with the money (especially with no controlling authority), and to not pull the kinds of annoying things banks do (fees fees fees)? To me it seems like relying on some third party to handle your Bitcoins is no better than the existing system Bitcoin intends to replace.

Scientific value of computations

One altcoin that I really like is Primecoin. Instead of brute-forcing hashes, Primecoin's proof of work is finding prime numbers. I feel like this is a nice benefit - in addition to everything the network does, now it's also doing calculations that are useful to science, instead of calculations that exist solely to be difficult.
Of course, if someone found a much more efficient algorithm to compute prime numbers, then this protocol would break. But the same is true of the hashing Bitcoin uses. Also, most existing cryptography is based on prime numbers, so I think there'd be a lot more to worry about than just Bitcoin. (That also implies that if the difficulty of prime numbers is trustworthy enough for everything else, it's probably good enough for Bitcoin too.) In either case, the protocol can be updated to a harder algorithm (even if it means going back to calculations that aren't scientifically valuable).

Using the block chain for messages and information

Already, every client has to download every block, and look through it for transactions involving its addresses. It should be an obvious and trivial extension to allow it to store messages sent to a Bitcoin address as well. This method of exchanging messages has a few nice advantages as well:

Making Bitcoin function as a P2P file sharing network

Expanding on the above idea: who says the messages have to be text? By using a binary format (perhaps with a container such as a zip file), it would be simple to send someone a file this way as well.
Of course, once you start sending blocks containing files, the size of the block chain becomes an issue again (and the size/quantity of the blocks for a large file could push transaction fees quite high as well). I think there are various ways to resolve this.
The way that appeals to me is to do what Freenet does:
I've emphasized may here because it's important in Freenet. Since there's no guarantee which clients will save/pass along a chunk, it's difficult to tell which clients have it.
Bitcoin clients, then, would be running this sort of chunk exchange system to share files. The block chain would just keep a record of the file's existence. It would identify the chunks that belong to a particular file, and perhaps the "owner" of the file - so that just as only the owner of a coin can spend it, only the owner of a file can upload a new version of it. Clients might also periodically broadcast a public message, stating that they have (or no longer have, or know where to find) chunks X, Y and Z (which may or may not be all the chunks they have).
Of course, another way to share files would be to simply broadcast a message saying "file X can be found at ftp://blah.blah.blah/X". But this isn't really sharing files, only their locations. This method doesn't give you any of the benefits of the Freenet method, but it might be suitable if you don't care about people being able to find out that it was you, in particular, who uploaded/downloaded the file. (Peers could still randomly grab copies of the file and rehost them, perhaps in chunks, to maintain availability and mask who's actually requesting it.)
Again, it'd be possible to encrypt a file with someone's public key, or leave it in plaintext so everyone can see. What Freenet does is something along the lines of including the decryption key in the file's URI. That way the nodes who hang on to its chunks can't know their contents (which means you can't get in trouble if someone uploads something illegal and your node happens to cache it), but anyone can be given the URI, allowing them to decrypt the file.

Using the block chain as a generic record of object ownership

Already the block chain is essentially a big record of who owns what coins. More generally, it's a giant key-value store. Spending a coin is telling all your peers "I'm giving Bob ownership of my Foo", and having them agree that you're able to do that. There should be little reason it couldn't record the ownership of other things, and other messages than just transfers of ownership, such as:
TL;DR Bitcoin and its block chain technology could be not just a digital currency, but the future of decentralized networking, incorporating email, DNS, file transfer and just about anything else all in one system.
(edit: add a couple more possible uses)
submitted by RenaKunisaki to Bitcoin [link] [comments]

Mining hardware constraints in relation to transaction fees: thinking about the future

In a (not so) distant future when block subsidies are no more, miners' income will come from transaction fees only. Assuming everybody behaves the same way and mines to support decentralization, what each person spends on mining is also what each person receives as mining rewards, so the balance is zero. However they still have to pay for their mining hardware and their power bills.
The question is: how much are you willing to spend to support the network?
I would say not much more than regular banking fees. As a rule of thumbs, let's say $10 per month.
Let's study 2 cases.
If you already have the hardware because it is general-purpose (i.e.: the crypto is ASIC-resistant), you can spend these $10 on electricity only. At a rate of $0.15/kWh, this is is 67 kWh, which means you can afford to let a miner of 91W run permanently. This is slightly more than a CPU (without the rest of the system), and only about one third of an AMD 7950 GPU (without the rest of the system either).
If you must buy specific hardware (i.e.: the crypto is ASIC-friendly), assuming it is perfectly power-efficient, you can disregard power costs and spend your whole budget on hardware. Assuming you will renew it every 3 years, this means you can afford a $360 miner. For Bitcoin, as of today, this would be 3 Redfury USB miners.
Now, the important part: since the sum of transaction fees can only support that much hashing power, if anyone mines more than their share, they contribute to centralizing the network, because assuming no one is willing to pay more transaction fees to compensate, someone else will need to stop mining.
Conclusions: in the long run, GPU mining is not sustainable at more than 1 GPU per household. CPU mining by everyone could be sustainable if a CPU-friendly, GPU-resistant and ASIC-resistant algorithm can actually be designed. As of today, SHA-256 is completely dominated by ASICs, Scrypt with N=1024 ASICs are on the horizon, Scrypt with higher N values is vulnerable to DOS attacks, Quark's algos have already been implemented as ASICs by academics and Protoshare's Momentum algorithm is GPU-vulnerable. As far as I know, the only viable algo that has yet to be proven GPU/ASIC-vulnerable is Primecoin's, but given the fates of the others, I wouldn't set my expectations too high.
So it appears that progression to ASICs will be hard to avoid. But big ASICs with power draws higher than 100 watts are definitely a threat to decentralization. They are acceptable as long as the money supply is growing, but are not sustainable, so I advocate the development of smaller ASICs to preserve the decentralization of crypto-currencies in the future.
Coincidentally you can use these calculations to estimate the cost of a 51% attack in the future: let's consider the current global population of 7 billion people, each spending $10 per month to secure the network. For a 51% attack, you would need more than 70 billion dollars per month, or 840 billion per year, 23% more than the 2010 US military budget.
Of course, all of this is assuming a PoW mining system. With proof-of-stake, it would be completely different, as block generation would be nearly free.
submitted by arkanaprotego to CryptoCurrency [link] [comments]

Primecoin seems like the real deal.

Primecoin has a genuinely different algorithm. Active development. A real community. Attention and adoption. It's not premined and it's not being pumped. The headlines aren't going to be that you can buy drugs with it-- the headlines are going to be that it's setting world records discovering a naturally occurring mathematical resource. (Arguably not a resource that's useful practically, but it's difficult to argue that it's less useful than Bitcoin's nothing.) It has a story and it has some momentum. Primecoin seems to me like it might be the real deal.
submitted by mungojelly to goodcoin [link] [comments]

Hopefully some Peercoin help, thank you

Hi everyone,
I've been reading all I can about Peercoin, and I'm planning on getting started (slowly accumulating BTC to convert) with Peercoin as soon as I can.
I have some questions relating to offline wallet setup that I haven't been able to find the answers to, and I would really appreciate any assistance. I've been lurking peercoin for a while, as well as
1 - I notice there are https ways of generating bitcoin/litecoin addresses, but only http for the analogous peercoin site:
It's funny - I'm satisfied it's 'safe' to download and run the https website on a LiveCD to generate an offline wallet (for bitcoin), but I'm not sure about the http version (for peercoin). Is there really any appreciable difference in risk? Could someone compromise the code hosted on http vs. https?
2 - If I can't use an unsecured http site to generate offline wallets, then I can certainly download the ppcoin-qt client and run that in LiveCD. I can get a receiving address, but I can't figure out how to input the analogous command to dumpprivkey that I see referenced for Bitcoin-qt. Is this command prompt not available in the current version, or do I have to setup a ppcoin.conf file in order to access the command prompt?
I would want to write down (on paper) the private key associated with my wallet.dat file generated in the liveCD environment just in case I completely mess up any backing up/copying I do of the wallet.dat
2.5 - Which brings me to: Does it matter? Is it easier to just back up the wallet in the liveCD environment, and then store it on a truecrypt volume on a USB key? And then later just mount the truecrypt drive and import the wallet when I want access to the coins?
My goal with ppcoin is to buy a few peercoins and then come back a few years later to see what's happened. I want everything to be offline until then.
3 - Can I use to find out about balances at peercoin addresses, or is that just for bitcoin? Is there an analogous service for peercoin? I would just want to check periodically that my offline address still has my peercoins, to satisfy my paranoia.
Thank you very very much for any help. I feel like I could set myself up nicely with bitcoin, but I'm just not completely comfortable with peercoin's software just yet. Though I much prefer the idea of holding a few ppc compared to btc.
submitted by ragerob to peercoin [link] [comments]

My journey to becoming a shibe

My life has always been a rollercoaster. I stumble into situations accidentally that if the stars were not alligned just right, I would have totally missed out on some excellent times. Usually at a steep cost that doesn't present itself until the end when it all seems to add up. naturally the path to becoming a shibe was on par with all the rest.
Yes I'm the guy that sold a few thousand of my stash to buy a marriage license a few days ago. That's life as a shibe. I started out back in december mining primecoin. My dog Roscoe passed away shortly before doge hit the streets. I took a little time off work just to gather myself and one day I clicked on a link to read a vice article about bitcoin. My brain doing what it does had me reading about other cryptos shortly after that. I just happened to pick up a pallet of computers for $102 at an auction a month before this and decided what the hell, power is included in my rent why not. And so I started mining XPM. I did ok, I mined 12 in a month or so (which eventually got sold for doges) and that feeling of success was awesome. It gave me something to focus on so I could heal from losing my best friend of 15 years. Eventually I stumbled upon doge and decided after reading of people mining decent ammounts with their cpu it was worth a shot. I once again did pretty well. I was totally hooked. When asked what i wanted for christmas I instantly replied with "a better graphics card so i can mine doges" my wife thought I had lost it but said ok then. Her tone changed later when I bought some stuff with doges and showed her that it is in fact real money and now she's all in. So I have just been mining away and really enjoying this new found group of people that believe in the same approach to life as myself. Then a few days ago I woke up and told my girl it was time to just say screw it and get married but only if we could pay for it in dogecoin. This was important to me because I want that to always be part of the memory from this time in our lives. It was awesome, might be the most expensive marriage license in history but oh well, totally worth it. Today I got up, pumped about todays milestone went to get coffee, came home and noticed my other dog Daisy was breathing really fast. Once again doge to the rescue, I sold a big chunk of my stash and darted towards the vet. On the way there she started yelping and it was obvious something bad was happening. She passed away a few minutes later. She was my baby. Devastation does not even come close to describing how bad it hurts losing her, both of them for that matter. But if it wasn't for Roscoe passing I wouldn't be here, and I guess Daisy going today is fitting for this story. So yeah a few days ago I posted what a day. I had no idea what was down the road just a few days later. What a week, damn dude. You know it's funny, had doge not had a picture of a dog on it I would probably have just kept right on crusing by, so to all the people that bash the logo I say don't ever change it, that little shiba means so much in my story and I cant imagine it ever being any different, just to be "taken seriously" by people wanting to invest or whatever. That dog is a huge part of the story and it simply can't be replaced and it shouldn't. But hey were all shibes and everybody has their own opinion. I just wanted to say thanks to all you crazy shibes. You guys have made this rollercoaster ride of mine a little easier to take. And a very bittersweet thanks to my dogs Roscoe and Daisy, the original shibes, that guided me here before their departure to the moon. I'll see you soon guys, the rocket is almost done.
submitted by tylerderden420 to dogecoin [link] [comments]

Hi there /r/Bitcoin, I recently found some forgotten bitcoins in an external HDD, and I'd like advice on a couple things.

Hi there /Bitcoin,
I was browsing through the contents of an external hard drive and found a backed up wallet.dat file with some Bitcoins I had completely forgotten about. I copied the file over to my computer, downloaded Bitcoin-Qt and let it synchronize with the network, so I can expend/transfer the coins, or move them to another (possibly paper) wallet, since right now I'm feeling kinda insecure.
I have a couple questions regarding how to handle this, and I figured this would be a good place to get advice. Here are my questions:
  1. Are paper wallets a good choice to store coins in the long term? Or should I buy a secondary computer, install linux and only use it for BTC? I've seen both advices in threads here and I'd like to know what's the safest approach to store the Bitcoins in the long term. What app should I use to generate the paper wallets?
  2. Is it a good idea to split the Bitcoins into multiple, smaller wallets? If so, what is a value you guys think it's good to store on each individual wallet for enhanced safety? 100mBTC? 500mBTC? 1BTC? Am I going to loose a lot of money in transfer fees if I split my money into multiple wallets like this?
  3. Is it a good idea to diversify the money into multiple alt crypto currencies like litecoin and primecoin? I've read in some places that litecoin is a "pump and dump" scheme, but I'd like to know if this is really the case, and why.
  4. When importing the paper wallets back into Bitcoin-Qt I read that you can lose money because of a generated "change address". Should I be worried about this if I go the paper wallet route?
  5. What is currently the best way to take the money out of BTC and into "the real world"? Should I use an exchange like mtgox? Over the counter exchanges over IRC? Or is it a better option to buy goods in sites that accept BTC?
Thanks in advance!
submitted by TheCoreh to Bitcoin [link] [comments]

I invested 100$ quintupled my investment but then lost it all and now my investment is worth 50$. The mistakes I made and the lessons I learned about markets and day-trading.

I've known bitcoin since Junior Year of Highschool 2011 when I discovered TOR, Bitcoin, and the Silk Road. I never participated at the time because I thought bitcoin did not have any legitimacy and it was still worth 0.5 dollars at the time so naturally as any average person I shrugged it off.
My Highschool Computer science wizard friend told me to check bitcoin again in April 2013 watching it rise to a 200$+ high and then watching it crash hard I never invested at that point due to fear and a inability to put money in Mtgox so naturally I shrugged it off.
Come September I rediscovered bitcoin and saw its brother litecoin having alot of potential this is the point I started to think about putting real money in. I remember the day I was sitting in College Algebra seeing bitcoin rise from 200-400-600 in a matter of hours let's just say I immediately closed my notes, packed up, and left that class early to go trade bitcoins immediately.
I signed up for coinbase and I got 0.13 bitcoins next week when the prices were frozen for that week. Now naturally I saw bitcoin going to gain only 20-30% gains so I instead focused on litecoin seeing huge potential for the then 9$ coin.
I watched my investment grow from 100-200-400$ in a matter of days litecoin was now at 430$ and I quickly cashed out. I spent the next week trading namecoin, primecoin, and other alt currencies on btce often engaging in pumping and dumping typing "LTC HIGH TO THE MOON" or otherwise trying to convince the hivemind to swing my way. I lost money and i gained it back in the end I set my self back 50$ to 380$ I learned that pumping and dumping though can be profitable is in my opinion unethical and can more often than not lose you money if your not in the "right" crowd.
I learned from the "Trollbox" that some people were taking interest in quarkcoin specifically max keiser. I switched exchanges and bought quarkcoin luckily before most of the late adopters ... I watched it rise to 0.00025 and sold making a solid 150$ from that trade.
At this time my whole focus was on trading and making the most money I can off my investment. I was dreaming of maybe a 1000$ or 2000$ or maybe If i got really lucky 5000$ or 10000$. Everyday I was trading looking up numbers trading in coins and other coins though I never did any real research. I barely knew the technical terms meant though I understood difficulty, and hash rate I still wasn't prepared to do detailed analysis of a cryptocurrency in comparison with another cryptocurrency. I made another 100$ off of a neocoin trade but that only fueled my greed even more. Then I lost it all.
Redcoin was the coin I eventually lost on seeing that it could go to possibly 4x the amount I saw at the time it was very attractive me and I saw the possiblity of 2000$ just a mouse click away. I bought at 0.00103 LTC expecting it to go up to 0.005 seeing as I though was its downward curve ... but I watched as it went lower and lower and lower ... 0.0008 - 0.0006 for a while it fluctuated my investment was still worth 500-541$ I convinced my self it would go back up saying that it couldn't go lower and saying that I would sell it once it went back up to 600$ ... but then I watched as it went lower and lower and lower. 200$ was the worth of my coin, at this time I didn't care, I just left it there and watched it go down to 150 then 100 then now its 50$ half of my original investment. I stopped looking at the screens, and stopped caring. I surrendered.
The coins are still sitting there as there is no use to cashing them out. Now I've learned my mistakes and have learned lessons of my folly's. I'm only 18 and attending my first year of community college I'm bound to make mistakes but the lessons learned are lessons that will stick with me my entire life.
Here are the lessons I learned and things you have to remember if you are trading in cryptocurrencies or any kind of trading for that matter.
TL;DR Bought low sold high made alot of money Speculated and lost alot of money
submitted by Johnglennsurf to Bitcoin [link] [comments]

Buy Bitcoin with Your Credit Card - CoinFlip Fundamentals ... Ganar Bitcoin, Ethereum, Dogecoin, Litecoin, Primecoin, Peercoin - tutorial epay How to get by Free Primecoin 20$ in one day 12/23/ ... PrimeCoin & Quark Bitcoin Trading talk PRIMECOIN PrimeCoin Review: PrimeCoin - XPM Coin

They can then be converted to Primecoin. Follow these steps: Buy Bitcoin or Etherium at an exchange you like. Transfer Bitcoin or Etherium to an exchange that supports Primecoin currency. Finally, exchange Bitcoin or Etherium to Primecoin. Please follow our step by step guide bellow to buy Primecoin. 1. Create an Account on Coinbase . To buy Ethereum from Coinbase – which you will exchange ... With a few exceptions, the way you would buy and sell other crypto-currencies is through Bitcoin, so if you have dollars and you want to buy Primecoin, you’ll probably need to buy some Bitcoin first, and then send these to an exchange, convert them to Primecoin and then withdraw them to your wallet (or leave it on the trading platform, if you trade frequently). Derived from Satoshi Nakamoto's Bitcoin, Primecoin introduces an unique form of Proof-of-Work based on prime numbers. Learn More. Advantages of Primecoin. The innovative prime Proof-of-Work in Primecoin not only provides security and minting to the network, but also generates a special form of prime number chains of interest to mathematical research. Thus primecoin network is energy-multiuse ... Table of Contents Primecoin Overview Buy PrimecoinFeatures Of Primecoin Buy PrimecoinGuide To Buy Primecoin (XPM)Guide To Sell Primecoin (XPM)Summing UpArticles You May Read 4.5 / 5 ( 6 votes ) Cryptocurrency is gaining popularity in the financial markets with new services and products with an already breathtaking decentralised model of Blockchain technology. In order to buy Primecoin or XPM you first need to convert your currency of choice into one of the main crypto currencies like Bitcoin, Ethereum, or Litecoin, and send it to an exchange where you can easily trade your BTC, ETH, or LTC for XPM.

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